{"id":1816,"date":"2009-02-15T02:48:06","date_gmt":"2009-02-15T00:48:06","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/?p=1816"},"modified":"2009-02-15T03:14:55","modified_gmt":"2009-02-15T01:14:55","slug":"wikipedia-art-update","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2009\/02\/15\/wikipedia-art-update\/","title":{"rendered":"Wikipedia Art update (and updated)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Lots of cool edits to <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Wikipedia_Art\">the page<\/a> &#8211; see the <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/w\/index.php?title=Wikipedia_Art&amp;action=history\">history<\/a> as well.<\/p>\n<p>Huge <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion\/Wikipedia_Art\">debate roaring<\/a> as well. My favorite quote here (followed by mini argument) is by Wikipedia user &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User:Shmeck\">shmeck<\/a>,&#8221; aka contemporary artist <a href=\"http:\/\/www.shmeck.com\/\">Shane Mecklenburger<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><strong>KEEP<\/strong> The <a title=\"Wikipedia Art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Wikipedia_Art\">Wikipedia Art<\/a> page is a self-aware example of Wikipedia&#8217;s mission of collective <a title=\"Epistemology\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Epistemology\">epistemology<\/a>. It enacts and exposes Wikipedia&#8217;s own strengths, weaknesses, potential, and limits as a system of understanding and as a <a class=\"mw-redirect\" title=\"Contemplative\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Contemplative\">contemplative<\/a> object of <a title=\"Beauty\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Beauty\">beauty<\/a>. The page is also a self-aware example of the strengths, weaknesses, potential, and limits of <a title=\"New media art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/New_media_art\">new media art<\/a> as a an object of contemplation. <a title=\"New media art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/New_media_art\">New media art<\/a> is an example of how the boundaries between <a title=\"Art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Art\">art<\/a> and every other discipline from <a title=\"Epistemology\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Epistemology\">epistemology<\/a> to <a title=\"Microbiology\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Microbiology\">microbiology<\/a> disintegrated (see <a title=\"Interdisciplinarity\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Interdisciplinarity\">interdisciplinarity<\/a>) in the 21st Century. This page is an example of how a Wikipedia page can go beyond simply existing as a Wikipedia page, while retaining its basic <a class=\"mw-redirect\" title=\"Utilitarian\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Utilitarian\">utilitarian<\/a> Wikipedia function. Those who care most about Wikipedia&#8217;s mission would probably agree that Wikipedia already is a collaborative art form. If you feel that Wikipedia is a beautiful thing, then at some level (whether or not you admit it) you consider Wikipedia an art form, with its own codes and conventions. This is an example of something that explains art, explores art, and is art all at the same time. Deleting this page would be a statement that the <a title=\"Exegesis\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Exegesis\">exegesis<\/a> of <a title=\"Conceptual art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Conceptual_art\">conceptual art<\/a> and\/or <a title=\"New media art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/New_media_art\">new media art<\/a> has no place in Wikipedia, except on the tired, lifeless, and opaque <a title=\"Conceptual art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Conceptual_art\">conceptual art<\/a> and <a title=\"New media art\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/New_media_art\">new media art<\/a> pages. Why shouldn&#8217;t a tiny, obscure corner of Wikipedia-brand collective <a title=\"Epistemology\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Epistemology\">epistemology<\/a> be preserved for an instructive, self-referential, and ever-changing living example of what an art object can be in the 21st Century? Should this page be judged invalid only because it refers to itself? This artwork can only exist as a Wikipedia page that refers to itself. Therefore, deleting would not only send the message &#8220;this is not Wikipedia&#8221;; it would also be saying &#8220;this is not art.&#8221; comment added by <a title=\"User:Shmeck\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User:Shmeck\">Shmeck<\/a> (<a class=\"new\" title=\"User talk:Shmeck (page does not exist)\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/w\/index.php?title=User_talk:Shmeck&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\">talk<\/a> \u00e2\u20ac\u00a2 <a title=\"Special:Contributions\/Shmeck\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Special:Contributions\/Shmeck\">contribs<\/a>) 00:27, 15 February 2009 (UTC)<\/p>\n<p>++++ The above is a wonderful commentary, but Wikipedia is not your web page to wax eloquently about what you think <strong>ought<\/strong> to exist. <a title=\"User:Bus stop\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User:Bus_stop\">Bus stop<\/a> (<a title=\"User talk:Bus stop\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User_talk:Bus_stop\">talk<\/a>) 00:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)<\/p>\n<ul style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\n<li><strong>Comment<\/strong>: Thanks, but isn&#8217;t that what everyone is doing here? Talking about what ought to exist on Wikipedia? You haven&#8217;t addressed a single one of my points.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>&#8212;- UPDATED, more nice stuff<\/strong><\/p>\n<dl>\n<dd>\n<ul>\n<li>This sort of artwork already has strong precedents in history &#8211; the Surrealists&#8217; Exquisite Corpse, Debord&#8217;s idea of Situationist detournement, and although I am not part of this collective, I fully intend to include it as part of my chapter for the upcoming book of distributed writing commissioned by Turbulence.org, and it will be mentioned as part of my talk on new art practices at a guest lecture at Denver University on 2\/16\/09, and I have already written on it on my critical blog in London. Therefore, the reference is to the emergence of the concept, which now exists outside Wikipedia, and is paradoxical but not solipsistic. I think that the person suggesting the idea of letting the idea grow is well-reasoned, and a time for review (say, 90 days) could be set for re-evaluation.&#8211;<a title=\"Special:Contributions\/24.14.54.88\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Special:Contributions\/24.14.54.88\">24.14.54.88<\/a> (<a class=\"new\" title=\"User talk:24.14.54.88 (page does not exist)\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/w\/index.php?title=User_talk:24.14.54.88&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\">talk<\/a>) 22:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)&#8211;<a title=\"User talk:Patlichty\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User_talk:Patlichty\">TS<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<dl>\n<dd>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Comment<\/strong>: Please note that, transgressive though they were, the Surrealists played &#8220;exquisite corpses&#8221; using their own notepaper. They did not try to scrawl it the margins of a library book. This is the problem. Nobody objects to a Wiki based artwork. The problem is that it can&#8217;t be inserted into Wikipedia because Wikipedia is not just a Wiki. It is an encyclopedia. It is no more appropriate to add non-encyclopaedic content here than it is to write stuff in library books. I have refrained from using the term &#8220;vandalism&#8221; because I think this is all a big misunderstanding rather than a deliberate attempt to damage Wikipedia. None the less, that is the effect it is having. &#8212;<a title=\"User:DanielRigal\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User:DanielRigal\">DanielRigal<\/a> (<a title=\"User talk:DanielRigal\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User_talk:DanielRigal\">talk<\/a>) 22:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)<\/li>\n<li><strong>Comment<\/strong>: I would very much beg to differ on the point of the Surrealists. Dali would lay in traffic, Artaud organized a riot aginst Dulac&#8217;s first screening of the Clergyman and the Seashell. If the Surrealists would have found it &#8220;appropriate&#8221; for the message, I am absolutely sure they would have done Corpses in the library. The way I see it, if it gets pulled, it will become by definition a case for reinsertion as an &#8220;event&#8221; in New Media art history. However, I know the project is being watched by a number of curators with great interest.&#8211;<a class=\"new\" title=\"User:Patlichty (page does not exist)\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/w\/index.php?title=User:Patlichty&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1\">Patlichty<\/a> (<a title=\"User talk:Patlichty\" href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/User_talk:Patlichty\">talk<\/a>) 23:36, 14 February 2009 (UTC)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/dd>\n<\/dl>\n<\/dd>\n<\/dl>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion\/Wikipedia_Art\">LINK<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Lots of cool edits to the page &#8211; see the history as well. Huge debate roaring as well. My favorite quote here (followed by mini argument) is by Wikipedia user &#8220;shmeck,&#8221; aka contemporary artist Shane Mecklenburger: KEEP The Wikipedia Art page is a self-aware example of Wikipedia&#8217;s mission of collective epistemology. It enacts and exposes [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[6,3,27,35,28,30,7,38,4,9,8,25,2,19,12,1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1816","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-art","category-art-and-tech","category-creative-commons","category-inbox","category-ireland-art","category-links","category-me","category-milwaukee-art","category-news-and-politics","category-pop-culture","category-re-blog-tidbits","category-reviews","category-south-african-art","category-stimulus","category-theory","category-uncategorical"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p9blZT-ti","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":1957,"url":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2009\/06\/02\/wikipedia-art-in-venice-call-for-remixes\/","url_meta":{"origin":1816,"position":0},"title":"Wikipedia Art in Venice: call for remixes","author":"nathaniel","date":"02 June 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"SEE THE CALL AND THE REMIXES SO FAR Wikipedia Art \u00e2\u20ac\u201c originally an editable encyclopedia entry as art work \u00e2\u20ac\u201c applied for and was denied citizenship on Wikipedia. It now seeks refugee status in Venice through the establishment of The Wikipedia Art Embassy. Encyclopedic ambassadors, Scott Kildall and Nathaniel Stern,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;art&quot;","block_context":{"text":"art","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/category\/art\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1939,"url":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2009\/05\/22\/jimmy-wales-talks-art-and-wikipedia\/","url_meta":{"origin":1816,"position":1},"title":"Jimmy Wales talks Art and Wikipedia","author":"nathaniel","date":"22 May 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Nice to see Jimbo talk about Art and Wikipedia. It's worth a read if only to hear how carefully Wikipedia's figure-head thinks and speaks in relation to notability and possibilities with arts coverage on Wikipedia. I agree with all of what he says (although it's admittedly very noncommittal - so\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;art&quot;","block_context":{"text":"art","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/category\/art\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1806,"url":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2009\/02\/14\/wikipedia-art\/","url_meta":{"origin":1816,"position":2},"title":"Wikipedia Art","author":"nathaniel","date":"14 February 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Wikipedia Art launch - TODAY! SEE THE INTERVIEW A collaborative project initiated by Nathaniel Stern and Scott Kildall, Wikipedia Art is art composed on Wikipedia, and thus art that anyone can edit. Since the work itself manifests as a conventional Wikipedia page, would-be art editors are required to follow Wikipedia's\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;art&quot;","block_context":{"text":"art","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/category\/art\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1831,"url":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2009\/02\/17\/durova-wikipedia-art-and-media-restoration\/","url_meta":{"origin":1816,"position":3},"title":"Durova: Wikipedia Art and media restoration","author":"nathaniel","date":"17 February 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Durova: Wikipedia Art and media restoration A worthy re-post, not really related to the Wikipedia Art project. I don't think my own work is exactly suitable, but hopefully some of my readers might be able to get involved. Wikipedia had one of its more interesting deletion discussions overnight. \u00c2\u00a0A page\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;art&quot;","block_context":{"text":"art","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/category\/art\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":2801,"url":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2011\/05\/12\/made-real-an-exhibition-by-scott-kildall-and-nathaniel-stern-london\/","url_meta":{"origin":1816,"position":4},"title":"MADE REAL: An exhibition by Scott Kildall and Nathaniel Stern, London","author":"nathaniel","date":"12 May 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"MADE REAL Scott Kildall & Nathaniel Stern @ Furtherfield Date: Friday 27 May - Saturday 25 June 2011 Venue: Furtherfield Gallery (formerly HTTP) Links: http:\/\/www.wikipediaart.org MADE REAL an exhibition by Scott Kildall and Nathaniel Stern, the founders of Wikipedia Art. Private View: Thursday 26 May 2011, 6.30-9pm Unit A2, Arena\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;art&quot;","block_context":{"text":"art","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/category\/art\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.furtherfield.org\/sites\/furtherfield.org\/files\/imagecache\/content_width_598px\/felixross_medium.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.furtherfield.org\/sites\/furtherfield.org\/files\/imagecache\/content_width_598px\/felixross_medium.jpg?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.furtherfield.org\/sites\/furtherfield.org\/files\/imagecache\/content_width_598px\/felixross_medium.jpg?resize=525%2C300 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":2998,"url":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/2011\/08\/23\/nathaniel-stern-in-milwaukee-vancouver-and-pretoria\/","url_meta":{"origin":1816,"position":5},"title":"Nathaniel Stern in Milwaukee, Vancouver and Pretoria","author":"nathaniel","date":"23 August 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"Current Tendencies II: Artists from Milwaukee Milwaukee, Wisconsin 10 Milwaukee artists at the Haggerty Museum of Art, Marquette University 13th and Clybourn, Milwaukee, Wisconsin August 24 - December 31, 2011 Opening reception, August 31, 6PM Concert at Church of the Gesu with John Weissrock, September 14, 6PM Panel Discussion with\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;art&quot;","block_context":{"text":"art","link":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/category\/art\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"13 views of a Journey (detail), 2011, video and print installation, 6 x 8 feet","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gallery.mailchimp.com\/f51a68dd625e9d4ae3f40a67a\/images\/13_views_detail.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gallery.mailchimp.com\/f51a68dd625e9d4ae3f40a67a\/images\/13_views_detail.jpg?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/gallery.mailchimp.com\/f51a68dd625e9d4ae3f40a67a\/images\/13_views_detail.jpg?resize=525%2C300 1.5x"},"classes":[]}],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1816","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1816"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1816\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1822,"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1816\/revisions\/1822"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1816"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1816"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/nathanielstern.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1816"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}